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  • HandoutHandout 1: Supply & Shopping List

    Handout 1: Supply & Shopping List

    Okay so before anything else — you do not need to buy a bunch of stuff to find out if you like this. Borrow a Dutch oven for class one if you can. But if you're building a kit, here's what actually matters and what's just nice.

    The Oven Itself

    Get a 12-inch cast iron camp oven with legs and a flanged lid (the lid has a lip around the edge so you can pile coals on top without them sliding off). That's the standard size for family cooking and it's what we'll use in class.

    • New, this runs $40–$70 depending on where you catch a sale.
    • Used is often better. I've gotten mine for $4 and $6 on DI runs. Check that the lid sits flat and there's no crack in the base. Rust is fixable — a crack is not.
    • Skip the aluminum "camp ovens" people bring backpacking. They warp. I will die on this hill.

    Budget Tier (what you need to start)

    • 12-inch cast iron Dutch oven, legged, flanged lid
    • Charcoal briquettes — a regular bag, nothing fancy. Briquettes, not lump charcoal. Lump burns hot and unpredictable. Briquettes are boring and countable, which is exactly what you want while you're learning.
    • A charcoal chimney starter (a few bucks, saves you from lighter fluid taste in your food)
    • Long-handled tongs
    • A lid lifter — this is not optional, you cannot lift a hot flanged lid safely with tongs
    • Leather work gloves, not oven mitts. Oven mitts are for kitchens. Coals stay hot a long time and mitts don't cut it.
    • A metal tray, old cookie sheet, or shovel to set the oven on so you're not cooking directly on grass or wood (dry grass catches, easily, don't learn this the hard way)
    • A small notebook. I'm serious about this one. Half of getting good at this is writing down what actually happened.

    Nice-to-Have Tier

    • A second, smaller oven (8 or 10-inch) once you know you like this — good for sides, rolls, smaller households
    • A trivet or lid stand so you're not setting a hot lid straight on the ground
    • Heat-resistant gloves rated higher than basic leather, if you're cold-natured and out in a canyon wind
    • A cast iron care kit (steel wool, oil) — though honestly you probably already own steel wool
    • A folding table, if you're tired of crouching over a cook on the ground

    What NOT to Buy

    • Lighter fluid soaked briquettes — they work, but the smell gets into food more than people admit
    • Any Dutch oven marketed as nonstick or enameled for this purpose. Plain cast iron only. The seasoning IS the nonstick.
    • A cheap thermometer gadget promising exact temps. You'll get better results learning to count coals than trusting a $12 gauge.

    Shopping Notes, Local-ish

    • DI, thrift stores, and estate sales around the valley turn up cast iron regularly, especially in spring. Check for a flat lid and no cracks, everything else is fixable with elbow grease.
    • Costco carries briquettes in bulk in the warmer months, which is the cheapest per-pound I've found.
    • Grocery store charcoal (Macey's, wherever) works fine too, just costs a little more per bag. Fine for one class, not worth stressing over.
    • If you're buying new cast iron, wait for a sale rather than paying full retail — it comes around a few times a year.

    One last thing: don't buy the good gloves and skip the notebook. The gloves keep your hands intact. The notebook is what actually makes you better at this. I still refer back to mine constantly, including one page that just says "the aluminum ones warp, don't listen to that guy at the campsite." He was very confident. He was wrong.

  • HandoutDutch Oven Camp Cooking Basics — Cheat Sheet

    Dutch Oven Camp Cooking Basics — Cheat Sheet

    Okay so this is the page you actually keep in your camp box, not the one you read once and lose. Print it, fold it, let it get a little grease on it.

    The Coal Math (this is the whole system)

    Heat in a Dutch oven is just coal count, top and bottom. Charcoal briquettes, not lump — lump burns hotter and less predictably, and while you're learning you want boring and countable.

    The standard rule for a 12-inch oven: double the oven size, then split it roughly 2/3 top, 1/3 bottom.

    • 12-inch oven = about 20-24 coals total → 16 on the lid, 8 underneath
    • 10-inch oven = about 17 coals total → 13 on the lid, 4-5 underneath
    • 8-inch oven = about 14 coals total → 10 on the lid, 4 underneath

    That 16-top/8-bottom split is your baking and roasting temp, roughly 350°F. Fewer coals, lower heat. More coals, higher heat. That's it. That's the whole trick.

    Where the Coals Go

    Lid coals go in a ring, not a clump — evenly spaced around the rim, not piled in the middle. My son figured that out before I did, after I'd read it in three different places and it hadn't landed. Bottom coals also go in a ring, not directly stacked under the center, or your bottom will scorch in the middle and stay pale at the edges.

    Wind

    Wind is the thing that wrecks your coal count and honestly I still can't perfectly eyeball the adjustment for it. What I do: add 2-3 extra coals if it's breezy, and just check more often instead of trusting the clock. Lift the lid, look, close it back up. Checking isn't cheating.

    Elevation

    We're around 4,600 feet here. Water boils cooler, so things take longer than the recipe says — plan on checking 10-15 minutes past whatever time is printed, especially for breads and cobblers. Don't trust a sea-level time and walk away.

    Don't Over-Coal

    Most family recipes want moderate, steady heat held for a while, not a blast. People panic and dump on extra coals thinking it'll go faster. It just burns the bottom while the middle's still raw. Ask me how I know.

    Rotating (optional but worth it)

    Every 15-20 minutes, turn the lid a quarter turn one direction and the oven itself a quarter turn the other direction. Evens out hot spots. Not required for a short cook, worth doing for anything over 45 minutes.

    Tool Safety, Plainly

    • Lid lifter gets its own spot, away from the coals, every single time. I got a small blister across two fingers grabbing one that had been sitting too close. Now it lives on a rock or in the dirt a few feet off, nowhere near heat.
    • Gloves, not oven mitts. Mitts are for ovens that don't have open flame six inches away.
    • Coals stay hot a long, long time after they look dead. Dump them somewhere safe, not on dry grass.

    Cleanup (the part everyone skips)

    Soap is fine — a little dish soap and a good dry-and-oil afterward won't strip a well-seasoned pan. The "never use soap" rule is left over from the lye-soap era and I'll die on this hill kindly but firmly.

    The one rule that actually matters: dry it completely before you put it away. Our air is dry, but a pan left wet overnight will flash-rust by morning anyway. Ask me how I know that one too. Heat it on low, wipe with a little oil, done.

    Anyone can dump ingredients in a pan. Keeping it rust-free through our weather is the actual skill.

  • WorksheetHandout 3: Coal Count & Cleanup Checklist

    Handout 3: Coal Count & Cleanup Checklist

    Fill this in as we go. The numbers matter more than your notes look pretty — mine don't either.

    ---

    Coal Counting Reference

    The rule that actually holds: for a 350°ish oven, take the oven size in inches, subtract 3 for bottom coals, add 3 for top coals.

    For a 12-inch oven that's 9 on bottom, 15 on top.

    Write your oven size here: ______ inches

    Bottom coals: ______ Top coals: ______

    Ring the top coals in a circle, not clumped in the middle. My kid figured that out before I did, after I'd read it three separate places and never actually pictured it right. Circle, not pile.

    Adjust for wind. If it's breezy (and up here it usually is), add 2-3 coals total and check earlier than you think you need to. I still can't perfectly eyeball how much wind costs you. I add coals and check. That's the whole system, honestly.

    Adjust for elevation. We're at about 4,600 feet. Things take longer than the box says. Don't trust a sea-level cobbler time — check 10-15 minutes past when a recipe tells you it's done.

    ---

    Today's Cook — Fill In As You Go

    Recipe: _______________________________

    Oven size: ______ in.

    Coals bottom / top: ______ / ______

    Time recipe called for: ______

    Time it actually took: ______

    Wind today (none / a little / a lot): ______

    What I'd change next time: _______________________________

    ---

    Cleanup Checklist (Do This Before You Leave Today)

    This is the actual skill. Anyone can dump a chicken in a pan. Keeping it rust-free through our dry-then-humid weather is what separates people who use their Dutch oven from people who own one that sits in a closet.

    ☐ Let the oven cool enough to handle (not fully cold, just handleable)

    ☐ Scrape out food debris with a spatula or scraper — plastic is fine

    ☐ Wash with warm water and a little dish soap. Yes, soap. The "never use soap" thing is left over from lye-soap days. A well-seasoned pan can handle a little Dawn. It's the leaving-it-wet part that gets you, not the soap.

    ☐ Dry it completely — towel first, then a few minutes over low heat to be sure. Cast iron left wet on the counter overnight will flash-rust by morning in our air. Learned that one the hard way and now I tell every class about it.

    ☐ Rub a thin coat of oil on while it's still warm, inside and lid

    ☐ Store with a paper towel between the lid and the pot, not sealed up tight

    ---

    Safety Reminders (Read, Don't Skip)

    • Coals stay hot a long, long time after they look gray and dead. Don't touch, don't kick, don't let a kid near the pit for a couple hours after.
    • Use a real lid lifter or gloves, not oven mitts. Mitts are for the kitchen. Don't set the lifter down near the coals between uses — I burned two fingers doing exactly that and now it lives on the table, not the ground, every single time.
    • Dry grass and hot coals do not mix. Clear the area under and around your setup.

    ---

    Bring this sheet back next week. We'll compare notes on what the wind did to everybody's coal count.

  • HandoutHandout 4: Troubleshooting Guide

    Handout 4: Troubleshooting Guide

    Most of these problems have the same root cause: coal count or wind. Check those two things first before you assume you did something wrong. Here's what usually happens and what to do about it.

    1. Raw in the middle, burnt on the bottom rim

    This is almost always too much bottom heat. You want most of your coals on the lid, not underneath. For a 12-inch oven, something like 8 under and 16 on top is a normal starting ratio, adjust from there. I learned this one the hard way with a cobbler and a field notebook entry I still have.

    2. Food's cooking unevenly, one side done and one side not

    Rotate the oven a quarter turn every 15-20 minutes or so, and rotate the lid separately in the opposite direction. Coals aren't perfectly even and neither is wind. This one fix solves more problems than anything else on this list.

    3. Coals died way faster than you expected

    Wind. Utah County wind will eat a coal count for breakfast and I still can't perfectly predict how much to compensate. What I do: check more often than the recipe says, and just add a couple fresh coals if it's not holding heat. Don't panic, just add and check again in ten minutes.

    4. Lid coals ended up in one clump instead of spread out

    Space them in a ring, not a pile. My son figured this out before I did, actually, after I'd read it in three different places and it hadn't clicked. Even heat needs even coal placement. Obvious once someone says it.

    5. Someone dumped in extra coals to "speed things up" and now the bottom's scorched

    Yeah. This is a real thing that happens in my house. More heat is not always better heat — most Dutch oven cooking wants steady and moderate, not a blast. If it smells like it's cooking too fast, it probably is.

    6. Pan rusted overnight

    This happens fast in our dry air, especially if the pan went away wet. I left one out on the counter for a rough week once and it flash-rusted by morning. Fix: steel wool back to bare metal, reseason, and this time actually dry it before it goes anywhere.

    7. Worried that using soap ruined your seasoning

    It didn't. This is my one contrarian opinion — the never-use-soap rule is left over from the lye-soap era. A little dish soap and a good dry-and-oil afterward is fine and honestly better than scrubbing dried egg off with nothing but water and hope.

    8. Recipe says a time and it's just... not done yet

    We're at about 4,600 feet here. Water boils at a lower temperature at elevation, so things generally take a little longer than a sea-level recipe promises. Don't trust the printed time blindly, trust the fork.

    9. Grabbed the lid lifter and it was hot

    Tools that sit near coals get hot. I've got a two-finger blister scar to prove it. Rule for class and for home: the lifter lives somewhere specific, away from the coal area, every single time, so nobody grabs it on autopilot.

    10. It just doesn't taste like anything special

    Honestly, sometimes this one's not a technique problem. Sometimes the recipe's fine, the oven's fine, and it's just a Tuesday and dinner's fine too. Not everything needs troubleshooting. 🎉

    ---

    General rule if you're stuck and none of this fits: check your coal count, check the wind, check that the lid's sitting flat. Ninety percent of problems live in one of those three places.

  • podcast_scriptClass podcast — episode 1

    Audio coming soon — show notes below.

    JESS: —so I'm holding this pan, and Kelli's like "no, feel the bottom." And it's basically a manhole cover.

    KELLI: It's heavy. That's normal. People pick up a 12-inch camp oven for the first time and think something's wrong with it. Nothing's wrong. Cast iron's just cast iron.

    JESS: This is Kelli Stewart, everybody. Welcome to episode one of Dutch Oven Camp Cooking Basics, which is a real class you can still sign up for, but also this is the podcast where we just talk about it a little first.

    KELLI: Yeah. Low stakes. Nobody's cooking anything right now.

    JESS: Okay so let's start basic. Why Dutch ovens. Why this class.

    KELLI: Honestly it started because of my son, Owen. He got really into a camping unit at school when he was about nine and wanted to sleep outside, and my husband Jeremy kept promising trips that kept getting eaten by work. So I did what I do, which is I went and read everything. Forum threads, old scout manuals, blogs run by people who clearly care way too much about coal counts.

    JESS: You don't half-do research.

    KELLI: I don't. And I bought a 12-inch camp oven off a DI run for four dollars, and it turned out to be a genuinely good pan under a bunch of neglect and rust. Cleaning it up scratched this itch in me, actually, kind of like tuning a warped violin. Something out of true, made right again.

    JESS: You teach orchestra too, right?

    KELLI: Band, technically. But same instinct. I like systems that have rules that actually hold. Heat is math, with these. Charcoal briquettes are almost embarrassingly consistent once you know your numbers.

    JESS: Give people a number, then. Something they can use even if they never take the class.

    KELLI: Okay so the thing that matters most, if you remember one number: eight coals under the oven, sixteen on the lid, for a standard 12-inch, moderate heat. That's your starting point for most family recipes — a roast, a cobbler, bread.

    JESS: That's it?

    KELLI: That's it. Count your coals, don't eyeball it. People panic and pile on more heat than they need and then wonder why the bottom's burnt.

    JESS: Speaking of burnt bottoms —

    KELLI: Oh, are we doing this one already.

    JESS: Episode one, gotta do it.

    KELLI: Okay. So my first cobbler. Owen's cobbler, really, I was making it for him. I did the coals wrong — not enough on the bottom, too many up top, and it was windy, which matters more than people think. Came out with a raw middle and a scorched bottom rim. Like, the crust on the edge was basically charcoal.

    JESS: What'd you do.

    KELLI: I ate the burnt parts. Standing over the pan, so Owen wouldn't see it had failed. Just quietly eating the worst bites myself while he had the good middle part.

    JESS: Did he notice?

    KELLI: He asked for seconds of the good part, so no. But that night I wrote in my field notebook — I keep this little notebook, half gear notes, half stuff I overhear from band parents — I wrote "16 top, 8 bottom is NOT enough coals in wind." Underlined it.

    JESS: Wind's a whole thing here.

    KELLI: It really is. Up here along the bench, or really anywhere in the valley, wind will wreck a perfectly good coal count. I still can't perfectly eyeball the adjustment for it. I just add a couple extra coals if it's gusty and check more often than I'd like to admit.

    JESS: That's kind of reassuring, honestly. That you still get surprised.

    KELLI: Oh, constantly. I've made every mistake in this class. That's basically why the class exists, so people don't have to make them alone in their driveway at 4 p.m. with a confused neighbor watching.

    JESS: Wait, that's a real thing that happened?

    KELLI: That's a different episode. 😭

    JESS: Fine, fine. Okay, one more practical thing before we go — something people can literally do tonight.

    KELLI: Don't leave your cast iron wet on the counter. Even here, with our dry air, it'll flash rust overnight if it's damp when you set it down. Dry it, put a little oil on it while it's still warm, done. Takes ten seconds and saves you a whole Saturday of steel wool later. Ask me how I know.

    JESS: You've done the steel wool Saturday.

    KELLI: Three times on one pan, once. Bad week, wet pan, rusted right through overnight. It's fine, it's fixable, but skip it if you can.

    JESS: Good tip. Okay, so next session — what are we actually doing.

    KELLI: Next time we get hands on it. We'll talk seasoning a pan from scratch, what to look for if you're buying used — because personally, I'd rather have a six-dollar rusty cast iron oven from a DI run than a brand-new aluminum one. And we'll do our first actual cook together, probably something boring and forgiving like a simple roast, so nobody's stressed about it.

    JESS: Boring on purpose.

    KELLI: Boring on purpose. Boring is how you learn the system before the system tries to embarrass you in front of your kids.

    JESS: Perfect. Alright, that's episode one. See you next time.

    KELLI: Bring gloves, not oven mitts. That's a whole thing too.

  • podcast_scriptClass podcast — episode 2

    Audio coming soon — show notes below.

    JESS: —wait, six dollars? For the whole oven?

    KELLI: Six dollars. Ten-inch, barely used, somebody's garage clean-out. I almost ran the cart into a shelf.

    JESS: Okay for people just joining us, this is Kelli Stewart, she teaches Dutch Oven Camp Cooking Basics for us, and apparently also shops DI like it's a competitive sport.

    KELLI: It's a hobby. DI runs are a hobby.

    JESS: Last episode we talked about your very first oven, the four-dollar one. This is a different one.

    KELLI: I have several now. That's what happens.

    JESS: So today's session two, cleanup and seasoning, right?

    KELLI: Cleanup and seasoning. Which is the boring part. I'll just say that up front, it's boring, but it's the part that actually matters. Anybody can dump a pot roast in a pan and put coals on it. Keeping the pan alive after is the actual skill.

    JESS: You say that like people don't believe you.

    KELLI: People don't believe me. They come in excited about the cooking and kind of glaze over during the cleaning talk. And then six months later they've got a rusted brick in their garage and they think the pan failed them.

    JESS: Does the pan ever actually fail?

    KELLI: Rarely. Usually it's a story I tell in every single class, so let me just tell it here too. I left a pan wet on the counter overnight, one rough week, wasn't thinking, and by morning it had flash-rusted. Our air is so dry it just pulls moisture out and leaves rust behind almost like it's in a hurry.

    JESS: Overnight.

    KELLI: Overnight. I scrubbed it back to bare metal with steel wool, reseasoned it three separate times before I trusted it again. So. Dry it. Actually dry it, not "looks dry." Then a little oil while it's still warm.

    JESS: That's the tip somebody can use tonight without ever taking the class.

    KELLI: That's the whole tip. Wash it, dry it on the stove for a minute over low heat so you know it's really dry, then wipe on a thin coat of oil. That's it. That's the whole secret and it took me three re-seasonings to actually believe it.

    JESS: And the soap thing. You have opinions about soap.

    KELLI: I do. People get very serious about "never use soap on cast iron," and I get it, that rule's from way back, lye soap era, when soap really would strip a pan. Modern dish soap is mild. A little soap and a good dry-and-oil is not going to hurt a well-seasoned pan, and it beats trying to scrub chicken grease off with just water and hope.

    JESS: Controversial.

    KELLI: Mildly. I'll die on this hill politely.

    JESS: Okay, tell the good one. The rolls.

    KELLI: Oh, the rolls. Okay so I made a batch of Dutch oven rolls for a family thing, nothing fancy, and they came out perfect. Like, actually perfect, golden all the way around, no scorched rim, no doughy middle, the ring of coals just did exactly what it was supposed to do.

    JESS: And?

    KELLI: And I took a picture of them like a weirdo and didn't tell anybody why I was smiling so much. I was just standing there grinning at a pan of rolls.

    JESS: That's not weird, that's earned.

    KELLI: It felt earned. After the cobbler disaster and the rust disaster and Jeremy dumping a whole chimney of coals on my ham that one time, a pan of rolls turning out exactly right felt like a small parade.

    JESS: For people who haven't had a Dutch oven disaster yet —

    KELLI: You will. Everyone does. That's kind of the point of the class, honestly, I've made all the mistakes and wrote most of them down in a little notebook I carry, so when it happens to you I can usually just say "yeah, that happened to me too, here's what it was."

    JESS: Real quick safety thing before we go?

    KELLI: Yeah — coals stay hot a long, long time after they look done. Gloves, not oven mitts, oven mitts are for the kitchen not for coals. And know where your lid lifter lives during a cook so nobody grabs it off the ground near the fire. I've got a bandaid scar that taught me that one.

    JESS: Next session?

    KELLI: Next time we actually cook. Full meal, chicken and potatoes, and we talk elevation, because we're up around 4,600 feet here and a recipe written at sea level is lying to you a little about timing.

    JESS: Lying's a strong word.

    KELLI: It's a strong recipe problem. Bring your notebook.

  • podcast_scriptClass podcast — episode 3

    Audio coming soon — show notes below.

    KELLI: —and that's the thing, the blister wasn't even from the fire. It was from the lid lifter. Just sitting there next to the coals like it's innocent.

    JESS: Wait, you actually burned yourself?

    KELLI: Two fingers, little blister line right across. Grabbed it without checking because I'd used it ten minutes before and forgot heat doesn't care about your timeline.

    JESS: Okay for people just joining us, we're back, this is episode three—

    KELLI: —and I taught the whole next band rehearsal with a bandaid and a new rule. Tools live in one spot during a cook. Not on the ground, not on the tailgate, one spot, every time, so you're not guessing what's hot.

    JESS: That's a real rule now? In your class?

    KELLI: First thing I say. Before coals, before food. Where do the tools live. Because gloves not oven mitts is obvious to me at this point but "don't grab the metal thing that was near fire" apparently needs saying out loud, including to myself, evidently.

    JESS: Evidently. Okay so today's session was cobbler day, right, that's what's on the schedule.

    KELLI: Cobbler day. Which, side note, is the one where I make everybody count their coals out loud before I let them touch a match. Sixteen top, eight bottom, ring pattern not a clump.

    JESS: The ring thing again.

    KELLI: The ring thing again. Owen figured that out before I did, I've told that story—

    JESS: You have, we're not doing it again.

    KELLI: We're not doing it again, good producing. But sixteen and eight is a starting point, not gospel. If there's any wind at all — and up here there's usually some wind — that number's a suggestion, not a rule. I still can't perfectly eyeball how much to add for wind. I add a couple coals, I check, I add a couple more if it's really moving. Nobody eyeballs that perfectly, so don't feel bad if your first few cooks run long.

    JESS: That's a good actual tip for somebody not even in the class. Like if they've got a Dutch oven at home already.

    KELLI: Oh, sure — if it's breezy, tuck your oven near something that blocks the wind a little. A rock, a truck, whatever's around. Doesn't have to be scientific. Just get it out of the direct line of the gusts. Saves you a lot of coal-chasing.

    JESS: I like that it's that simple.

    KELLI: Most of it's simple. People think Dutch oven cooking is some whole skill set and it's mostly just — heat is math, and math doesn't care if you're nervous.

    JESS: Okay, so, be honest. How'd the cobblers turn out today.

    KELLI: Better than mine did the first time, put it that way. I've told the room before — my first cobbler ever, raw middle, scorched bottom, I ate the burnt rim standing over the pan so Owen wouldn't see it flop. He asked for seconds of the middle part, didn't even notice.

    JESS: Kids are merciless and also completely unobservant, somehow both.

    KELLI: Both, at once, constantly. I wrote in my notebook that night, sixteen top eight bottom is not enough in wind, all caps, and I still go back to that page sometimes.

    JESS: You really do keep that notebook.

    KELLI: Half gear notes, half overheard stuff from band parents. It's a good notebook.

    JESS: For people listening who missed today — anything they can do right now, no class, no gear, that'd actually help them?

    KELLI: Two things, but only got time for one — soap is fine. Little bit of dish soap on your cast iron after you cook, it will not strip good seasoning, dry it fully and rub a little oil in after. That "never use soap" rule is old, it's from a different kind of soap. Don't scrub chicken grease with just water and hope, that's how you end up hating your own pan.

    JESS: Controversial in some circles.

    KELLI: I'll die on that hill happily.

    JESS: Alright, last thing — what's next session.

    KELLI: Next time we're doing a full protein, chicken and potatoes, the actual meal, not just dessert. And we're doing the cleanup drill for real, everybody actually scrubs their own oven before they leave, no skipping it because that's the part everyone skips at home and then wonders why their pan's rusty.

    JESS: Bring gloves, I assume.

    KELLI: Bring gloves. And maybe don't put your lid lifter wherever's convenient. Just saying.

Around the web

Sites we keep coming back to. Some picked by your instructor, some shared in class.

Videos worth your time

Hand-picked by your instructor, with notes on what to watch for.

  • How to Use a Dutch Oven at Camp
    L.L.Bean

    Watch how the instructor sets up charcoal placement on top and bottom of the oven for even heat at a real campsite.

  • Dutch Oven Cooking 101
    CampCookingTV

    Pay attention to the seasoning and care steps since a well seasoned oven is the foundation of good camp cooking.

  • Dutch Oven Basics for Beginners
    MountainMomTots

    Notice the simple beginner recipe demo which shows how to judge cooking time without an oven thermometer.

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